In this episode, Dale Sellers sits down with Josh to discuss his journey from unexpected pastoral leadership at age 26 through the aftermath of moral failure, COVID-19 burnout, compassion fatigue, and seven miscarriages—and how biblical counseling, spiritual formation, and anchored hope restored him. Josh shares practical pathways for pastors facing trauma, depression, anxiety, father wounds, and isolation, plus how CCEF equips small churches with counseling referrals, intensives, consultations, and the new Biblical Counseling for Pastors course.

Josh is the Counseling Manager and a counselor at CCEF. He holds a master of Arts in Biblical Counseling from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary (SEBTS) and is working on his Doctorate of Education in Biblical Counseling from SEBTS. He is ordained by North Wake Baptist Church in Wake Forest, NC.

Prior to CCEF, Josh served as a pastor at FBC Afton in Afton, NY, for over seven years. He is passionate to see God reach down into the broken and hard moments of people’s lives to provide hope and healing. Josh has been married to his wife, Stephanie, since May 2014. He enjoys a fresh cup of coffee, cheering on his favorite sports teams, playing volleyball, working on cars, and fishing.

Key Points In Brief

• Josh’s backstory: Called to ministry in high school, earned a master’s in biblical counseling, thrust into lead-pastor role at 26 after senior pastor’s moral failure; navigated COVID-19, compassion fatigue, and recurrent pregnancy loss (seven miscarriages) while pastoring in rural New York.
• Anchored Virtual (formerly Anchored Hope): Virtual counseling ministry serving pastors and church members; grew from ~20 to 50+ counselors offering next-day appointments nationwide.
• CCF (Christian Counseling and Education Foundation): Josh now serves as counseling manager; CCEF offers counseling referrals, virtual sessions, intensives, consultations, senior-counselor support, and the School of Biblical Counseling certificate programs.
• Trauma and compassion fatigue: Low-grade nagging trauma compounds over time; pastors compartmentalize suffering during survival seasons (COVID-19, conflict, transition) until hitting a breaking point.
• Father wounds: Most pastors carry father wounds (known or unknown) that shape how they relate to God as Father; healing requires naming shortcomings, connecting unmet desires to Scripture, and experiencing God’s personal care.
• CCEF’s mission: “Restoring Christ to counseling and counseling to the church”—biblical counseling sees saints, sinners, and sufferers simultaneously and speaks hope into both sin and suffering.
• Help and change follow a path, not a script: CCEF’s core distinctive—counseling is wisdom-guided exploration of the heart, not one-size-fits-all formulas.
• Practical supports for small churches: CCEF provides counseling referrals (virtual and in-person), senior-counselor consultations, crisis intensives (virtual or on-site), certificate training for lay counselors, group discounts, the new Biblical Counseling for Pastors 10-week cohort with Ed Welch, and a monthly pastor newsletter with early access to resources.
• Pastoral care principles: Share the burden with eldership; pair prayer with therapy, accountability, and specialist help; build sustainable, layered supports rather than shouldering counseling alone.

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Key Takeaways

1. Trauma layers; it doesn’t replace itself. Unprocessed pastoral trauma from moral failure, COVID-19, conflict, or personal loss compounds beneath the surface until the “floor caves out.”
2. Compassion fatigue is real. When you spend more of yourself than you receive in fellowship, community, and care, anger and resentment toward people’s needs signal soul depletion.
3. Father wounds shape your view of God. Naming what your earthly father couldn’t provide—and connecting those unmet desires to Scripture—reveals how your Heavenly Father has been meeting those needs all along.
4. The personal God gets personal with us. Biblical counseling explores the active, desiring heart beneath behavior and connects it to Christ’s finished work and the Spirit’s present ministry.
5. Pastors don’t have to carry counseling alone. Small churches can build sustainable care through referrals, elder accountability, lay-counselor training, and specialist partnerships (like CCEF).
6. Recovery requires multiple supports. Prayer + therapy + accountability + practical safeguards + community—not one alone—create the “wall” between you and the struggle.
7. Rest is a discipline, not a luxury. Taking a literal day off every week is foundational to making good decisions and sustaining long-term ministry.
8. Help is available and affordable. CCEF’s counseling, consultations, and Biblical Counseling for Pastors cohort provide accessible, faith-rooted care tailored to small-church realities.

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Notable Quotes

“I just confessed that I don’t know what to do next. I don’t know where to go next. So I just invited the whole church to gather together in a smaller, more intimate space after the service and just pray together.” — Josh Clink

“I was spending more of myself and I was getting less fellowship, less community, less care… I felt angry at them for coming to me with their problems because I had my own that I didn’t know was under the surface.” — Josh Clink on compassion fatigue

“He just started listing all those things out… and then he started to connect exact passages of Scripture where God actually provides that desire, that want, that thing that he feels like has been missing… He started to really realize that he’s actually been getting that satisfaction from his heavenly Father.” — Josh Clink on healing father wounds

“The personal God gets personal with us.” — CCEF core distinctive

“Help and change follow a path, not a script.” — CCEF core distinctive

“Restoring Christ to counseling and counseling to the church.” — CCEF mission statement

“At any one time, all of us are saints, sinners, and sufferers.” — Josh Clink

“I don’t remember him ever rescuing me… I often feel abandoned when I get into a situation where I don’t know what to do… But I know the source of that now, and so I’m able to kind of work through it.” — Dale Sellers on his father wound

“Even the best human father, the most well-intended human father, the one who loves and cares and does everything he can for his children, is still going to fail and fall short in some ways. And that is going to have an impact on that person as they grow.” — Josh Clink

“Prayer is brilliant. Prayer itself needs other interventions. Therapy itself is brilliant, but there needs to be other interventions. Accountability is amazing, but there needs to be other interventions.” — Josh Clink

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Next Steps

For Pastors in Crisis or Compassion Fatigue

1. Reach out for counseling today: Visit Podcast 326 Transcript or Anchored Virtual to schedule a virtual session (next-day availability).
2. Name your trauma layers: Journal or talk with a mentor about unprocessed pain from the last 5–10 years (transitions, conflicts, COVID-19, personal loss).
3. Identify your father wound: What did you long for from your dad that you didn’t receive? Connect those unmet desires to Scripture passages where God meets that need.
4. Take a literal day off: Block one full day per week for rest and protect it for the next 8 weeks—no exceptions.
5. Find a spiritual-formation mentor: Ask a trusted pastor, counselor, or elder to meet with you bi-weekly to focus on your own soul care and spiritual habits.

For Small Churches Building Counseling Support

1. Explore CCEF partnership: Request a counseling referral, senior-counselor consultation, or intensive for a member in crisis (services are virtual or in-person).
2. Train lay counselors: Enroll 2–3 faithful members in CCEF’s School of Biblical Counseling certificate program (online, self-paced, group discounts available).
3. Join Biblical Counseling for Pastors: Enroll in the next 10-week cohort with Ed Welch (5 Zoom calls, bi-weekly, pastoral peer support, care for your own heart + equipping for your church).
4. Subscribe to the Pastor Newsletter: Sign up for CCEF’s monthly pastor-specific newsletter with early access to resources, counseling insights, and care tools.
5. Share the counseling burden: Establish elder accountability, define referral pathways, and clarify when to bring in specialists vs. pastoral care.
6. Budget for pastoral health: Add a line item for counseling, coaching, retreats, or sabbatical to fund proactive soul care.

For Individuals Seeking Help

1. Fill out an intake form: Go to CCEF or Anchored Virtual, request counseling, and grant permission for your counselor to partner with your local church pastor.
2. Build your support wall: Pair counseling with accountability software (e.g., Covenant Eyes), a weekly check-in partner, prayer support, and a recovery group.
3. Pursue multiple interventions: Don’t rely on prayer alone, therapy alone, or accountability alone—layer them for sustainable freedom.

Link To Podcast Audio: 95Podcast 326

 

Link To Podcast YouTube:

Q & A Transcript (Curated)

Q: How did you end up in the lead-pastor role at 26 after a moral failure?

A (Josh): My senior pastor resigned in February 2018 due to a moral failure. I stepped in as interim, and over the next few months, the Spirit gave me a sense of “oughtness”—a short-term vision for the next 1–5 years. Leadership affirmed me, and I went through an 8-month candidating process while already leading. I was called permanently in October 2018.

Q: What led to your compassion-fatigue breaking point in 2021?

A (Josh): COVID-19 put me in survival mode—head down, compartmentalizing my own needs. I was spending more of myself and getting less fellowship, community, and care. By summer/fall 2021, I hit a wall: people’s genuine struggles made me angry because I had my own unprocessed suffering beneath the surface. That’s when I reached out to a seminary counseling professor and began intentional therapy.

Q: How did counseling and mentorship help you?

A (Josh): My professor walked me through the compassion fatigue, then connected me with an elder from my seminary church who mentored me for several years. We met bi-weekly (sometimes weekly, sometimes monthly) and focused on my spiritual formation—disciplines, habits, recognizing when I was operating in my own strength instead of depending on God. That mentorship was the gift that got me through the rest of my time at that church.

Q: You and your wife went through seven miscarriages. How did that affect your ministry?

A (Josh): It was happening in the backdrop during COVID-19 and the pastoral transition. Stephanie experienced the physical and emotional pain—hormones ramping up and then plummeting—and one miscarriage was severe enough that she had to stay overnight in the hospital alone because I couldn’t go in due to COVID-19 restrictions. I was trying to care for her and support her while managing my own struggles. It was a season where our neediness, limitation, and dependence on God became undeniable. (Editor’s note: Josh and Stephanie welcomed their first child, Gloria, on January 8, 2026.)

Q: What is CCEF, and what do you do there?

A (Josh): CCEF is the Christian Counseling and Education Foundation. Our mission is “restoring Christ to counseling and counseling to the church.” I serve as counseling manager, overseeing 16 counselors who provide virtual and in-person biblical counseling. We partner with local churches—we don’t replace them. We also offer an online School of Biblical Counseling, intensives, senior-counselor consultations, and resources like the Journal of Biblical Counseling.

Q: How can a small-church pastor access CCEF’s help?

A (Josh): Pastors or members can go to our website, fill out an intake form, and request counseling. We ask permission to connect with the person’s local pastor so we can partner in their care. We also offer consultations with senior counselors—you can set up a meeting to talk through a difficult situation and get wisdom on how to navigate it. And we do intensives: spend a week (or a couple of weeks) here in Philadelphia or virtually to dig deep into a crisis.

Q: What is the new Biblical Counseling for Pastors course?

A (Josh): It’s a 10-week course led by Ed Welch, one of our faculty members and a pastor himself. It includes 5 Zoom calls every other week where pastors meet with Ed and each other to talk through trauma, depression, anxiety, and other struggles. The course provides personal care and equips you to care for your church. It also pairs pastors together to create a support infrastructure after the course ends.

Q: Dale, you mentioned you have a father wound. Can you talk about that?

A (Dale): My dad and I were close—we built houses together, spent time together. I thought we’d “arrived” when we could go all day without talking. But I later realized I needed to talk. He only said “I love you” three times, all in church services when they made him. I knew he loved me, but I didn’t realize how much I needed to hear it. I also don’t remember him ever rescuing me—not that he didn’t, it’s just blank. So now, when I get into a situation where I don’t know what to do, I often feel abandoned. But I know the source of that now, and I’m able to work through it.

Q: How do you help someone work through a father wound?

A (Josh): One counselee I worked with had a deep father wound and was struggling to see God as a good Father. I asked him to journal between sessions and list all the things he wanted from his dad—the expectations, the desires, the disappointments. As he compiled that list, the Spirit led him to connect each unmet desire to specific Scripture passages where God actually provides that very thing. He realized he’s been receiving that satisfaction from his Heavenly Father all along. It was one of the most joyful, celebratory sessions I’ve had—he testified to seeing God as his Father in ways he never had before.

Q: What are CCEF’s core distinctives?

A (Josh):

• Care and counsel are pastoral and at home in the church.
• The personal God gets personal with us.
• Help and change follow a path, not a script.
• At any one time, all of us are saints, sinners, and sufferers.
• Faith is fundamental to sanctification—God speaks into both suffering and sin through His Word and His people.

Q: Why is taking a day off so important?

A (Dale): At every in-person conference I do, I ask by a show of hands: “How many of you take a literal day off every week?” It’s never been 10%. Last time, out of 42 pastors, only one raised their hand. You can’t make good decisions when you’re depleted. I’ve had pastors tell me they lost their churches, almost lost their marriages—all because they weren’t taking care of themselves. Rest isn’t optional; it’s a discipline.

Q: What would you say to a pastor who’s never made a disciple one-on-one?

A (Josh, referencing an earlier story): I worked with a pastor who said, “Based on what you told me, I haven’t made a disciple in my 30-year career.” He had only discipled from behind the pulpit. We gave him simple tools, and now he’s discipling 12–15 people a week, and his church is starting groups all over. It’s never too late to start.