In this practical episode of the 95 Podcast, Dale Sellers and Joseph sit down with volunteer expert Mary Ann Sibley to kick off a five-part series on preparing churches for Easter. Mary Ann shares her powerful testimony of being saved in a church parking lot by a smiling volunteer and reveals why the service truly starts before people enter the building. The conversation explores how to shift from recruiting volunteers out of need to building mission-focused teams through relationship, how to have difficult conversations with volunteers in the wrong roles, and why churches must stop doing 20 things poorly to focus on 1-2 things well.

With Easter bringing a surge of spiritually hungry young families back to church, this episode provides actionable strategies for small and mid-size churches to care for volunteers, create meaningful connections, and prepare for maximum impact during the most critical season of the year.

Key Points In Brief

• Mary Ann’s Testimony: First invited to church at 40 years old; almost turned away from a tiny parking lot with no spots, but a volunteer in an orange vest with a big smile walked her to the one remaining spot—saved in that “fire trap” building through people who understood their mission
• The Service Starts in the Parking Lot: First impressions matter; volunteers who show genuine love and hospitality can literally change someone’s life before they ever enter the building
• Five-Part Easter Prep Series: This episode launches a series focused on preparing churches for the influx of new people, especially young families, coming back to church in huge numbers across America
• Prayer First: Before any planning, establish a prayer rhythm—not just “God is good, God is great” but deep, meaningful prayer about your mission and the people you’re called to reach
• Assess Where You Are: Don’t assume anything; have honest conversations with your volunteers and ask them how you’re really doing at reaching people who don’t know you
• The Telling Question: “Who is that one person in your life that you’ve been praying for, and if they walked in, you’d fall on your face and thank God?” When a room of key volunteers can’t answer this, they’ve forgotten the mission
• Volunteers Are the Mission: Shift from viewing volunteers as people serving to further your vision to understanding that stewarding, equipping, discipling, and loving volunteers IS the mission
• The Residue of Attractional Movement: Many churches still operate with a central leader model where everyone fulfills the pastor’s vision, but Ephesians 4 says pastors equip saints to do ministry—volunteers aren’t just volunteers, they’re the saints of the church
• Bara Statistic Warning: Only 31% of Christians strongly believe they have a responsibility to share their faith (down from 35%)—this reveals why churches struggle to mobilize people beyond Sunday
• Volunteers Are Your Gymnasium: Serving on Sunday isn’t the mission; it’s where you get stronger in faith and confidence so you can exercise that strength Monday through Saturday
• Capacity and Leadership Structure: Jesus led 12; pastors can’t personally shepherd everyone but must pour into 5-10 key leaders who then shepherd others shoulder-to-shoulder, diaper-to-diaper with volunteers
• Relationships Build Trust: Trust is the currency for difficult conversations; if you only have transactional relationships, you can’t have the hard conversations needed for health
• Have the Conversation: When volunteers are in the wrong role, don’t avoid it—sit down and say “I think so highly of you, but I’m seeing a disconnect. Tell me what’s going on.” Always motivated by love first
• Serving Is Not Sentencing: Stop sentencing Sister Jane to the nursery for three years without checking on her; serving should be an opportunity, not a life sentence
• Don’t Say No for People: Churches with 1,000 people claim “we don’t have leaders”—why would God build your church without putting anyone there who can further the kingdom? You’re believing a lie
• The Sister Jane Skeleton: If you recruit out of need, stick someone in a role, and never check on them again, you’ll eventually find their skeleton in the nursery because you forgot about them
• Need Is Not a Strategy: Neither is hope; stop recruiting out of desperation and start recruiting from relationship and mission clarity
• Stop Doing Too Much: Small churches try to do 20 things poorly instead of 1-2 things well, which wears out the 20% who lead everything; focus on what aligns with your culture and community
• The Four C’s: Care, Conversation, Connection, and Clarity—if you care about people, have conversations with them, you’ll reach connection; but you must also bring clarity that you’re asking for mission-focused meaningful ministry with responsibility and accountability
• Clarity Is Mission-Focused: Don’t ask people to be calendar keepers doing tasks; cast vision about meaningful ministry, and people who thought they didn’t qualify will step up
• 30 Minutes Over Coffee: Could be the game-changer for your entire ministry; relationship is the key to recruiting and retaining volunteers

Key Takeaways

1. The Mission Starts Before the Front Door Mary Ann’s salvation story proves that volunteers in the parking lot are not just helpers—they’re the front line of evangelism. A smiling face, an orange vest, and a welcoming gesture literally changed the trajectory of her eternal life. Churches must train volunteers to understand that hospitality isn’t about logistics; it’s about being Jesus to people who are nervous, skeptical, and looking for a reason to leave. First impressions aren’t just important—they’re potentially life-changing.

2. Shift From Vision-Fulfillment to People-Equipping The attractional/seeker movement left us with a leadership model where everyone serves to fulfill the pastor’s vision. But Ephesians 4 says the job of pastors is to equip saints to do ministry. Volunteers aren’t just volunteers—they’re the saints of the church, the army God has given you. Your job isn’t to get them to do things; it’s to steward, equip, disciple, and love them so well that they can’t help but overflow that love to others. When you focus on the people God has already given you, they become the mission, not just servants of the mission.

3. Prayer and Assessment Must Come Before Programs Before adding another Easter program or event, pray deeply about your mission and honestly assess where you are. Ask your volunteers the hard question: “Who is that one person you’re praying for that if they walked in, you’d fall on your face thanking God?” If a room of key volunteers can’t answer, you’ve become focused on yourselves, your programs, and feeling good about each other—you’ve forgotten the mission. Only 31% of Christians strongly believe they have a responsibility to share their faith. This isn’t a programming problem; it’s a heart problem that requires prayer and honest assessment.

4. Build Leadership Structures That Scale Relationship Jesus led 12. You can’t personally shepherd everyone, especially as a small church pastor already stretched thin. Build a leadership structure where you pour deeply into 5-10 key leaders who then shepherd volunteers shoulder-to-shoulder. Two leaders are better than one—they can check each other’s bad days and provide accountability. Relationships build trust, and trust is the currency for difficult conversations. Without this structure, you’ll burn out trying to do everything, or volunteers will feel neglected and leave.

5. Stop Recruiting Out of Need; Start From Mission Clarity Need is not a strategy, and neither is hope. When you desperately beg for volunteers from the stage, someone finally says “okay,” you stick them in the nursery, and then you never check on them for three years until you find Sister Jane’s skeleton in the rocking chair. Serving is not sentencing. Instead, build relationships over 30-minute coffees, discover people’s passions and gifts, invite them with clarity that you’re asking for meaningful mission-focused ministry with responsibility and accountability—not calendar keeping. When you recruit from mission and relationship, people stick.

6. Simplify Your Strategy to 1-2 Things Done Well The average church in America is 75 people, and they’re trying to offer 15 different ministry emphases like a church of 1,000. This wears out your key 20% who end up doing everything. You can’t offer what you can’t sustain. Sit with your leadership, pray, fast, and identify the 1-2 things you do really well that align with your community and culture. Then strip away everything else. When people complain about what you’re not doing, invite them to lead it. This focus allows your volunteers to thrive instead of burning out.

7. Care, Conversation, Connection, and Clarity The four-point framework for healthy volunteer ministry: (1) Care genuinely about your people, not just what they can do for you; (2) Have ongoing Conversations about how they’re doing, what they need, struggles at home, in marriage, with kids—be in their whole lives; (3) This leads to Connection where they’re connected to the Lord, their calling, and what God wants to do through them; (4) But also bring Clarity that you’re inviting them to mission-focused meaningful ministry, not task-completion. This framework transforms volunteer culture from transactional to transformational.

8. Have the Conversation Before There’s a Problem You can’t wait for something negative to happen before talking to volunteers. Schedule regular check-ins not just about their area of service but about their lives. When you know what’s happening in their marriage, with their kids, at their job, you’ll spot problems before they become crises. If someone is in the wrong role, sit down and say, “I think so highly of you, but I’m seeing a disconnect—tell me what’s going on.” Your motivation must be love first, not role-filling. Sometimes the most loving thing is giving someone permission to step back.

Notable Quotes

“I was saved in a fire trap of a building and a parking lot with 20 cars, and that’s where the love of Christ met me through the people who were serving and really understood what their mission was.” — Mary Ann

“As I pulled into the tiny little parking lot, there was a volunteer standing in the middle of the parking lot with an orange vest on, big smile on his face, waved at me and motioned me, follow me. It’s like I didn’t have a choice. And he was so kind about it… so much Jesus.” — Mary Ann

“The service starts in the parking lot. That’s first impressions.” — Dale

“Sometimes it’s just we need to get in relationship with people and ask people… the love that was shown to you is what impacted you to go, I need to look a little farther into this.” — Joseph

“When we are willing to flip the script, get out of our comfort zone and actually believe what God says to do, do it within our churches, he will bring the fruit. He will do the increase. But we have to be willing to do things differently because it’s not worked so far like this.” — Mary Ann

“We can never forget the mission that we’re here for. Not to sit comfortably on Sundays, but to get out there and find more people who don’t know him or need to love him more.” — Mary Ann

“Who is that one person in your life that you’ve been praying for and if they walked into your church, you would fall on your face and thank God? Who is that person?” — Mary Ann

“Out of 12 people only one could give me a name because they are so focused about themselves and their programs and how good they feel about each other that they have forgotten the mission.” — Mary Ann

“The volunteers are not serving just to further your mission. The volunteers are the mission.” — Mary Ann

“If we focus the people that God has already given us, how are we stewarding them that honors what God has called us to do? And that is to equip them and disciple them and love them and care for them in a way that they can’t help but want to share it and be more.” — Mary Ann

“The percent of people who categorize themselves as Christian that strongly believe they have a responsibility to share their faith has gone from 35% to 31%.” — Mary Ann (citing Barna study)

“What they’re doing and serving in the church on a Sunday isn’t limited there. That’s just your gymnasium to get stronger in your faith and your confidence in what Christ has called you to be to go out there now and exercise that strength.” — Mary Ann 

“We act as though the mission and the work stops at Sunday at noon or one o’clock. Good. Everyone go home. See you next week. And it just begins.” — Mary Ann

“Serving is not sentencing. You’re not just, you know, sentencing this person to the nursery to change dirty diapers of their life forever.” — Joseph

“Don’t say no for people… are you really saying that God is like so limited there that there’s no one that can do this?” — Joseph

“30 minutes with someone at coffee could be the game-changer for your ministry.” — Joseph

“Have the conversation because I know I’ve made so many mistakes making some wrong assumptions from a distance or from what other people have told me… I care more about you as a person than any role you could do here at this church.” — Mary Ann

“You can’t wait till something negative is happening to have a conversation. There should be a conversation going on all the time.” — Dale

“I think what we’re asking you to do here is actually stealing your worship. So would it be best if you took a break for a little bit?” — Joseph (conversation with stressed volunteer)

“We come to ministry and we come to church with our whole lives, you know, we’re a whole person, you know, mind, body, soul, and spirit.” — Joseph

“When you’re doing 15 different ministry emphasis, you’re still pulling the same key volunteers to all of that stuff and you are wearing them out and you’re going to run them off.” — Dale

“Most of our churches or a lot of our churches are known for doing 20 things poorly instead of one or two things well.” — Dale

“Need is not a strategy. Neither is hope.” — Dale

“Relationships build trust and trust is the currency for difficult conversations.” — Mary Ann

“Jesus sent them off in pairs. Each of us could be having a bad day. So two’s better than one.” — Mary Ann

“Why would God build your church and not put anyone in there that he thinks can do anything to further the kingdom?… I think it’s more you. You’re not being bold. You’re not letting go. You’re just believing the lie.” — Mary Ann

“You need to care. You need to have conversation which will lead to connection… Clarity. When you do make the ask, when you have that relationship and you make the ask, come with clarity about it being mission focused.” — Dale & Mary Ann

Next Steps

For Lead Pastors:

1. Establish a Prayer Rhythm — Before planning any Easter events, gather your key leaders and volunteers and pray deeply about your mission and the specific people God has placed in your path to reach; ask God to reveal where you’ve become calendar-driven instead of mission-driven
2. Ask the Telling Question — In your next staff or volunteer meeting, ask: “Who is that one person in your life that you’ve been praying for, and if they walked into our church, you’d fall on your face and thank God?” If your team can’t answer, you’ve forgotten the mission
3. Audit Your Ministry Offerings — List all 15-20 programs, events, and ministries you’re trying to run; ruthlessly eliminate everything except the 1-2 things you do really well that align with your community and culture; give your volunteers permission to focus
4. Schedule Coffee, Not Just Meetings — Block out 30-minute coffee times with key volunteers over the next month; don’t just talk about their role—ask about their marriage, kids, job, struggles, and dreams; build trust before you need it
5. Build Your Leadership Structure — Identify 5-10 key leaders you can pour into deeply who will then shepherd other volunteers shoulder-to-shoulder; you can’t personally reach everyone, so build a structure that scales relationship

For Volunteer Leaders:

1. Train Your Team on Mission — Help volunteers understand they’re not just doing tasks; they’re the mission, the army God has given your church; what happens in the parking lot, at the welcome desk, in the nursery is frontline evangelism
2. Check In Regularly — Don’t let Sister Jane sit in the nursery for three years without checking on her; serving is not sentencing; regular check-ins show you care about people, not just roles
3. Have the Hard Conversation — If someone is in the wrong role or seems disconnected, sit down face-to-face and say, “I think so highly of you, but I’m seeing a disconnect—tell me what’s going on”; your motivation must be love first
4. Pair Your Leaders — Send volunteers out in pairs like Jesus did; two can check each other’s bad days, provide accountability, and prevent isolation

For All Church Leaders:

1. Stop Recruiting Out of Need — Never again desperately beg from the stage; instead, recruit from relationship and mission clarity over coffee conversations where you discover gifts and passions
2. Bring Clarity to Your Ask — When you do invite someone to serve, make it clear you’re asking for meaningful mission-focused ministry with responsibility and accountability, not calendar-keeping or task-completion
3. Focus on Easter as a Launching Point — Use this Easter season not just as a one-time event but as the beginning of a long-term shift toward mission-focused volunteer culture that extends beyond Sunday
4. Model the Four C’s — Care genuinely, have ongoing Conversations, create Connection to calling, and bring Clarity about mission; make this your framework for every volunteer interaction
5. Remember You’re Equipping Saints — Your job according to Ephesians 4 isn’t to get volunteers to fulfill your vision; it’s to equip the saints to do the work of ministry; shift your paradigm from task-management to people-development

For Preparing for Easter Specifically:

1. Start With Parking Lot/Hospitality — This is where Mary Ann was saved; train your parking, greeting, and welcome teams that they’re not logistics coordinators—they’re the first face of Jesus that nervous, skeptical people will see
2. Plan for Young Families — Churches across America are seeing young families return in huge numbers; make sure your kids’ areas, nursery, and family spaces are prepared, staffed, and resourced
3. Create Follow-Up Systems — Easter will bring new people; have clear, simple next steps ready (not 3-week classes, but 10-15 minute connections) and help them find 3 friends quickly
4. Assess Your Current Volunteers — Are they equipped? Do they have what they need? Are they in the right roles? Use the next few weeks before Easter to have conversations and make adjustments

Link To Podcast Audio: 95Podcast 327

 

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Q & A Highlights from Transcript

Q: Can you share your testimony of coming to Christ and what happened in the parking lot? Mary Ann: I wasn’t invited to church until I was 40 years old. I grew up in the South and saw churches but didn’t see Jesus in the people I knew. A family in my neighborhood loved me and my boys for two years without preaching at me—they just loved me. I finally agreed to go, but I was looking for a reason to leave. The tiny parking lot seemed full, and I thought, “Great, no parking—we’ll go to McDonald’s.” But as I pulled in, there was a volunteer in an orange vest with a big smile who waved and motioned “follow me.” He was so kind and invitational—so much Jesus. He walked my car to the one remaining spot. I’ll never forget that. I was saved in a fire trap of a building with a parking lot that held 20 cars, and that’s where the love of Christ met me through people who understood their mission.

Q: What’s the goal of this Easter series? Dale: We’re doing a five-part series on preparing for Easter. This will air the first week of March. We’re seeing young families coming back to church in huge numbers across America, and we want churches to be prepared for the impact of new people. We’ll talk about different aspects of prepping for Easter, but today specifically about training and preparing volunteers because the service starts in the parking lot.

Q: What do you do when helping church leaders who feel they’ve hit a dead end with volunteers? Mary Ann: The biggest thing I do is come alongside church leaders who feel like they just hit a dead end—they’re in a rut and mostly feel alone in the process. Leading volunteers takes leadership to a whole different level with so many nuances and obstacles. Some are man-made, some are imagination, some are believing lies of the enemy. I’m here to crush all that and remind leaders that it’s not their church, it’s God’s church. How are we stewarding it? And most of all, how are we stewarding the people that are being called to lead it?

Q: Where should churches start if they want to prepare for Easter but don’t focus on volunteers currently? Mary Ann: First, pray. Not just “God is good, God is great” at dinner or asking a 5-year-old because adults don’t want to. Really pray. Think about what the prayer rhythm looks like within your volunteers when they’re gathered. Second, assess where you currently are. Don’t assume anything. Ask your volunteers—send everyone out to have conversations: “How are we really doing reaching people who have no clue who we are?” Get honest about your starting point.

Q: What’s the telling question you ask to assess if a church has forgotten the mission? Mary Ann: I was at a church with about a dozen key volunteer leaders sitting around the table. I asked: “Who is that one person in your life that you’ve been praying for, and if they walked into your church, you would fall on your face and thank God? Who is that person?” I told them mine—if my person walked in and there was only 10 minutes left of the sermon, I would lose my mind. They all looked at me and didn’t have anything to say. Out of 12 people, only one could give me a name because they are so focused about themselves and their programs and how good they feel about each other that they have forgotten the mission.

Q: It sounds like there’s a shift needed from viewing volunteers as carrying out our vision to releasing them to do their mission. Is that right? Dale: We live in the residue of the seeker and attractional movements—not knocking them, lots of people came to Jesus. But what happened was there’s a central leader and everybody’s job is to come fulfill that person’s vision. While that’s a leadership way, it’s not a biblical way because Ephesians 4 says the job of pastors is to equip saints to do ministry. Somewhere we shifted to thinking the job of volunteers (who are really the saints of the church) is to fulfill our vision, but our job is to help them be the people God created them to be.

Mary Ann: That was so generous, Dale, because I have a saying: The volunteers are not serving just to further your mission. The volunteers ARE the mission. If we focus on the people God has already given us, how are we stewarding them in a way that honors what God has called us to do—to equip them, disciple them, love them, and care for them in a way that they can’t help but want to share it and be more.

Q: What’s the Barna statistic you mentioned? Mary Ann: Barna did a recent study about the state of the church. The percent of people who categorize themselves as Christian that strongly believe they have a responsibility to share their faith has gone from 35% to 31%. That’s a softening, not a dramatic shift, but honestly 35% was already very sad. It goes back to when I asked that church “Who are you praying for?” and there was nobody.

Q: How do you get people plugged into their sweet spot so they’ll stay long-term? Joseph: First, find out where their interests are—what excites them? Make it relational, not transactional. Say, “Dale, we’re so glad you’ve been coming. Tell me your story. What are you passionate about? What do you love about being here?” As you hear their story, you can say, “It seems like you really love kids—have you ever thought about serving and being part of leading them to find and follow Jesus?” They might say, “I’ve never thought I could do that.” Then you help them through your process, get background checks, and plug them in.

Q: What if you get someone plugged in and they’re in the wrong spot? Mary Ann: My answer is always: Have the conversation. I’ve made so many mistakes making wrong assumptions from a distance or from what other people told me. Put on your big girl pants and have the heart-to-heart conversation because your motivation number one is to love them first. Sit there and say, “I think so highly of you and have so much respect for you. I know you’re on fire for what we’re doing, but I’m seeing a disconnect. Tell me what’s going on.” There’s no accusation—you’re giving them an opportunity. You have to let them be honest, and you have to be willing to let them out.

Q: Why is ongoing conversation so important? Dale: You can’t wait till something negative is happening to have a conversation. There should be a conversation going on all the time. I served as an executive pastor with 14 staff members—part-time, volunteer, and full-time. I scheduled time slots each week to talk about their specific area. After about two weeks, we were up to date on all that stuff, but I didn’t quit meeting with them. That’s when I dove in: How are you doing in your marriage? On the inside? What’s going on with your kids? I got very close because I did care, and I knew stuff. When we needed hard conversations later, it wasn’t that hard because we’d been having conversations.

Q: Can you share an example of having a hard conversation with a volunteer? Joseph: I had a volunteer running our soundboard—great guy, heart to serve. But every Sunday before worship rehearsal, we were having problems. I could tell he was so stressed out. One Sunday he was even cursing in the sound booth. I pulled him aside—we’d already had conversations—and said, “Hey man, are you okay? We care about you. We love you. What’s going on?” He told me about problems at work and with his health. We come to church with our whole lives—mind, body, soul, and spirit. I said, “Man, I think what we’re asking you to do here is actually stealing your worship. Would it be best if you took a break?” He said, “You know what? I actually do think that’s probably best.” Our relationship wasn’t broken. He didn’t leave the church. We served him and helped him through those things.

Q: What’s a good number of people for one person to lead? Mary Ann: Jesus did 12. That’s a great area to start. But it depends—everyone has a different capacity lid, and different ministries have different needs. Tech or worship is logistically in a smaller area versus children’s ministry down the hall. But the biggest component is: Pastors, that’s not always going to be your role and it shouldn’t be. Your church will be stronger if you empower key leaders to do meaningful ministry. Your responsibility is to make sure those 5-10 leaders have hard conversations and do constant checking because they’re serving shoulder-to-shoulder, diaper-to-diaper with volunteers. They get it.

Q: What if a pastor’s board expects them to do everything? Dale (implied): If your church is larger, you can’t personally touch everyone. You’re going to build a leadership structure so the same thing is happening all the way down—Joseph, don’t we need that?

Joseph: Absolutely.

Q: What about churches that say “we don’t have any leaders”? Mary Ann: I was talking to someone this past week who said, “I don’t think we have any.” They have like a thousand people at their church! I said, “Why would God build your church and not put anyone in there that he thinks can do anything to further the kingdom? From what I know, you love the Lord. This is a God-honoring church. I think it’s more you. You’re not being bold. You’re not letting go. You’re just believing the lie. The enemy just wants you to stay tired and ready to burn out. And your people just feel like they’re going through the mill of what church is instead of being on the exhilarating ride of doing ministry.”

Q: What’s the Sister Jane skeleton story? Dale: I always use this example at conferences. You need someone to serve in your nursery. You get up and talk about “we really need someone.” Someone finally steps up: “Okay, I’ll volunteer.” What we typically do is put Sister Jane in the nursery and we don’t check on her again for three years. About 3 years later, we’re like “I haven’t seen Sister Jane in forever.” We go look at the nursery and there’s her skeleton sitting on a rocker because we stuck her in there and no one ever checked on her. Some pastors have constant turnover in volunteers, and I can guarantee it’s because you’re not in relationship with them—you’re plugging people in, filling a need, and going “Oh thank God, I can relax now.”

Q: What should pastors do about trying to do too much? Dale: The average church in America is 75 people. One thing we’ve got to stop doing—and I did it, which is why I had heart surgery and wrote a book about being stalled—is we try to do too much. Most churches are known for doing 20 things poorly instead of one or two things well. Every church has the 20% that lead. In a small church, those 20-percenters are doing everything. When you’re doing 15 different ministry emphases, you’re pulling the same key volunteers to all of it, wearing them out, and running them off. Sit down with your leadership, pray, fast, seek the Lord, and come up with the one or two things you do well that align with your culture and community. Then strip away all the other stuff.

Q: Can you summarize the main points from today? Dale: Here are our three points: You need to care. You need to have conversation, which will lead to connection. Care, conversation, connection.

Mary Ann: I’d add a fourth C: Clarity. When you make the ask, when you have that relationship and make the ask, come with clarity about it being mission-focused. You’re not asking them to be a calendar keeper or do tasks. Cast vision and say, “Let me be very clear. This is about ministry, meaningful ministry, responsibility, accountability.” When you’re clear about that, people who are thinking they don’t qualify will be in for that.

Joseph: That’s the why behind the what, right?